However, as I say that, I would hope Mark does come back and dialouge. I would be interested to understand his perspective more without using words and tactics that shut down the conversation. Instead to enter a “conversation” for better understanding.

Josh, I look forward to reading your blog more over the coming days and to see what comes of your studies for your book. If I can be of any assistance, let me know.

Thanks for introducing yourself and sharing your website; I appreciate all of the kind things you said about me. It appears as though you’ve spent a lot of time wrestling with the issues at hand and seek to find a balanced position. I respect you for this.

Although I hadn’t expected Mark to respond the way he did, I wasn’t totally surprised. Any worldview which makes inclusiveness and toleration its chief virtue is destined to violate its own rule. The Emergent Church doesn’t mind having conversations with people who already agree with them. However, they appear to have little interest in engaging in serious dialog with those who challenge their beliefs. While this is sad, it is not surprising. Those who claim to be interested in or tolerant of all viewpoints are extremely volatile towards those who claim that all viewpoints are not equally valid. If you dare to make a claim to truth, if you dare to say that someone else’s beliefs are false, you will be despised by such a person. Suddenly, all friendly pretenses break down, and those who expound such a worldview are exposed for what they really are (and it’s not warm and fuzzy).

Thanks for recommending the book, Why We’re Not Emergent by Two Guys Who Should Be. I haven’t read it myself, but I’ve heard good things about it.

Thanks again for your comment. Take care!

I’m not even sure where to go from here. What to say first……

I have read both of the posts on this site concerning Mark Scandrette and I am very impressed with Josh’s writtings.

I have done some writings myself on Emergent and my experiences with them. While I have not written about Mark, I did have the oppurtunity to meet him at the Emerget Summer Institute a few summer’s back and sit in on a couple of his sessions he led. I liked him and think he is a very nice man. He has a strong heart for contenment to provide the means to help people in need which I find respectful.

I do however find the dialouge above bizzare. Though I am not a fan of Emergent overall, one of the things I thought we could learn from them is how to have open dialouge and learn more from one another. At least that was my first impression……that is starting to change.

The whole you are too young, too inexperinced, off in your theological understanding, misrepresenting me, you had an agenda when you started talking to me, this was private why did you take it public…..stance is surprising to me (especially when Mark dives in deeper into the conversation about personal struggles Josh has shared with him?) This is a bad show on Mark’s part in my call. (I’m allowed…..I’m 40, ordained, and read my Bible).

I believe it shows just how well Josh has written concerning these matters no matter what your age. I look forward to reading your book someday (until then I suggest “Why We’re Not Emergent by Two Guys Who Should Be”.)

Not too long ago, while starting a series of blogs about my concerns within Emergent per my visit at the Summer Institute. Doug Pagitt stopped by with a comment like “I look forward to reading your posts”. I thought great! This will be a great dialouge between us for further understanding for both and others who stop by. However, after many weeks, nothing. After reading a few other blogs by other people, I have found simular yet differently worded statments by Doug in their comments. It almost feels more like “I’m watching you” type threat to intimidate than an invite to convo.

At least Mark gave more than that here but at the same point seems to be a hodgepodge of reasons to discount Josh than the conversation at hand.

That said, one other thing stands out to me. Yes, I agree with others who have been by here that some take the gospel message and turn it into a “Get Out of Hell Free Card”. I also believe others who have made the gospel a message to “Let’s do good deeds and don’t worry about the rest because there is no hell anyways” Both can be equaly scary…..

However, while the command to take care of others and show love is clear, so is the Great Commission. We can do all the good deeds and show love in ways no one else can but if we are need leading them to the cross…then point missed.

What’s this book do with the Emergent Church? Have you read Carson’s critique? How about the book by Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck (which I think is the most balanced critique)? Since you are one of us now (I knew I’d get you to join the dark side, John Calvin meet Josh Brown), you can read Carson, Piper, Grudem, and the gang and actually enjoy it!

SDG,

Andy

There is really no reason for you to believe me, but I am being honest.

One, Mark seems upset that he (Mark) failed to communicate clearly and thouroughly both in his presentation and in his discussion with Joshua. You clearly had an agenda with your story and that agenda skewed what you said. If you do not provide the whole story you can not be upset if others fail to understand.

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(quote from mark’s response)

You are a young man, with limited but important life experiences and education– and I sense that you are in the process of clarifying what you believe and where you fit in the scheme of society and Christian tradition.

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Two, this type of implied attack on someone’s viewpoint and opinions is truly pathetic. This is simply a way to discredit someone based upon their age. It sounds warm and fuzzy to say “limited but important life experiences and education” but it is demeaning. Some of the most important minds in human history have been young and quite frankly all of us have “limited life experiences.”

Deal with the the issues not the age of a man. All of your intellectual posturing is kind of lame as well. When push comes to shove the heart of Mark’s response is mostly built on I am older more educated and better able to think clearly on these complicated issues. This might be of some value if Joshua were coming up with unfounded nonsense however what he was advocating was clearly Biblical, including the Gospels.

Just so you will all know, I am a old, educated, highly experienced pastor who has worked with street people in New York City, Dallas, and Fort Worth. I have worked as a prison chaplain, a pastor for 27 years, and counselor. I also like comic books, puppies, and cool movies

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(Mark’s response)

(Josh, remember that this was someone who had recently taken a near fatal dose of phenabarbitol— and was mostly incoherent— do you think that at that moment he had the mental capacity to grasp anything I could have said beyond gentle human touch?

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Yes, Mark, those who are on drugs, who have great struggles with mental health, depression, thoughts of suicide can understand the concepts of sin, repentance, love, hope, and salvation. Apparently your limited life experience has kept you from seeing the power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the real world with really hurting people.

I guess I am just older, wiser, and more educated, and much more experience than Mark and thus I am best able to interpret life. Or maybe the Love of God is more powerful than the greatest of sin, depravity, and mental sickness. It pierces the darkness and sets us free.